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Postby art » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:37 pm

Has anyone landed from altitude with both engines out? If so, what was it like?
What were the flight characteristics like?
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Postby daffy1029 » Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:08 pm

Hi Art,
With a Lazair, you have around 12:1 glide ratio, which is very good in helping to find fields to land in (depending on your altitude). As far as flying without engines, it's not to much different than with engines. If fact, one of my first solo flights, I had an engine stop, as I was climbing. Since I had no experience with single engine flight, I elected to shut off the good engine and pointed the nose down to maintain airspeed. I simply glided to an open field beneath me and made a perfect landing in a plowed field. I stopped in about 40 feet. I was a little shook up, as I was very new to flying and was not expecting engine trouble so soon. All it was that caused the engine to quit was the nuts, holding the carb on, backed off! I lockwire them now(Rotax 185's).
I actually go up to higher altitudes now and then, and shut the engines off for practice. I have practiced single engine flying and find it fairly easy to handle. Depending on the conditions, you can maintain altitude with one Jpx engine (winter). With the Rotax 185, I could never quite maintain level flight, but it sure extends your glide! Such a wonderful plane to fly. Daffy B)
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Postby art » Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:12 pm

Thank you, Daffy
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Postby ozzie » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:11 am

hi Art you will find that if you shut down the engines on finals you will have a much shorter landing distance. if your engines are ideling just a little to high you may not be able to touch down and just float along. the pioneer lazair with the engines off flies great has good sink rate and l/d. i used to just enjoy shutting down both and do steep turns and lazy eights, with a bit of practise you can do a nice "bob hoover" type display. looking forward to get mine back in the air and play these old games. pioneer single engine just takes you a bit futher until the inevitable happens ozzie
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Postby Guest » Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:48 am

daffy1029 @ Aug 8 2005, 08:08 PM wrote: Hi Art,
With a Lazair, you have around 12:1 glide ratio, which is very good in helping to find fields to land in (depending on your altitude). As far as flying without engines, it's not to much different than with engines. If fact, one of my first solo flights, I had an engine stop, as I was climbing. Since I had no experience with single engine flight, I elected to shut off the good engine and pointed the nose down to maintain airspeed. I simply glided to an open field beneath me and made a perfect landing in a plowed field. I stopped in about 40 feet. I was a little shook up, as I was very new to flying and was not expecting engine trouble so soon. All it was that caused the engine to quit was the nuts, holding the carb on, backed off! I lockwire them now(Rotax 185's).
I actually go up to higher altitudes now and then, and shut the engines off for practice. I have practiced single engine flying and find it fairly easy to handle. Depending on the conditions, you can maintain altitude with one Jpx engine (winter). With the Rotax 185, I could never quite maintain level flight, but it sure extends your glide! Such a wonderful plane to fly. Daffy B)


What about 185 engine Lazairs with nosefairings and P-tip props. How do they do single engine and with engines off ?
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Postby rayjb60 » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:32 pm

I have a nice low idle since I converted to CDI and it is known that a low idling prop creates more drag that just shutting the thing off, and I have put that to great use in order to get a nice sink rate for getting down onto the runway.

Its a great help since there is no other glide path control....I simply use the throttles to vary the glide path.

It feels like a 6:1 glide with the engines idling low and maintaining 25-30mph airspeed.

Low idle is a great feature to have.

Ray
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Postby art » Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:48 pm

Is airspeed your indicated airspeed Hall or standard airspeed indicator.
How is your toe doing? And your car and carport? Hope all is well and you get back in the air. Art
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Postby gdewsbury » Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:37 am

:blink: Had an engine out landing myself the other day. Left engine. Found a broken wire between the points and condenser. Lots of places to land at this time of year with all the grain being cut. The wire broke at a point where the solder stoped under the insulation. After speaking with a couple people it seams that this is not an unusual occurance. The solder makes the end of the wire stiffer than the rest. With vibration and time the wire will break if no strain relief is employed. This took about 4 years. Looks like this may also answer my question from a couple of years ago about tiny tak readings. Before the engine quit completely I was seeing various high rpm readings. I'm thinking this is from current arcing across the breaks in individual strands which will generate multiple signals. Some of the old TIG welding machines I've worked with use this same techneque to generate a high frequency start (hot start). I will be adding some sort of support to the wire as a strain relief. Any suggestions?
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Postby Guest » Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:34 am

Do you have threaded post and nut condensers or older solder top type ?
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Postby rayjb60 » Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:14 pm

That airspeed was from the HALL.

My liftoff/stall speed is ~20mph on it.

Toe has healed just fine....no more pain.

The Camaro was a write off due to the extensive structural repairs required on the roof, frame etc, so now I own a Jeep Wrangler 4x4.....I think it will take a much bigger roof to kill this vehicle....LOL.

FYI: I added K&N Air filters to my Rotax185's and found they run exactly the same. I oversized them by 10x to make sure there would not be any restriction.....and they work fine....they would even fit OVER the velocity stacks that many people have.

K&N Filter RU-2580 to fit my 52mm carb flange.

I have yet to work on the light simple brakes addition, although I have the concept figured out already as to how I will do it.

Maybe I should sketch it out and scan it so I can upload it here.


PS: I get good RPMs on the Rotax185's

Left Engine 5770 rpm static and 5840 rpm in the air at 3000 ASL
Right Engine 5860 rpm

I have not be able to equalize the 90 rpm difference, so I have to sync up with the left engine
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