General Messages Post you pics as well

Postby xgary » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:40 pm

UPAC moderated posts............. HAAHHAHAHAAHAHA --if you got sumthing to hide -- JUST MODERATE IT !!!!!!!


I have just returned from a Transport Canada ECATS (Electronic
Collection of Air Transportation Statistics) meeting in Ottawa,
attended also by NavCanada, ATAC, Copa, and several other
organizations. The purpose of the meeting was to inform us of
Transport's wish to collect much more data than they do now, and to
find a means of doing this as painlessly as possible. They have
already made their presentation to CBAA and it was well received
there. They are now hoping to receive the same cooperation from the
private flying community. Among the data that they would like to
receive is the information already submitted in the AAIR, namely the
hours flown. However they would also like to know the takeoff and
landing points of each flight, the number of passengers on board,
the maximum takeoff weight, the nature of the flight (revenue or non
revenue?) and the departure and arrival times, and of course the
registration of the plane.

The justification for all of this is that Transport has little
information on which to base the future of Canadian private
aviation. They wish to know the economic impact of private aviation
in order to be able to justify the use of airspace by our
categories, and perhaps also the viability of the uncontrolled
airspace airports that do not currently have a means of collecting
data. For example a large fly-in might have a couple hundred planes,
each using twenty gallons of fuel and a crew who consumes a few
meals at the destination. If this took place at an uncontrolled
airport, as it usually does, none of this economic activity is
credited towards our use of the airspace.

I explained that for the Amateur-Built community they might have a
reasonable chance of gaining cooperation if they could be trusted
not to misuse the information. It might also be necessary to offer a
benefit in exchange for all the work of reporting, perhaps semi-
annually, perhaps quarterly. However for the Ultralight community it
would be almost impossible to gain cooperation because even logbooks
are not required for the over 4000 Basic UL's currently on the TC
registry. If they were asking the same of the boating community,
they would likely get cooperation from the owners of large yachts,
and some measure of cooperation from the owners of the runabouts.
However the windsurfers would probably just keep windsurfing and
ignore all requests. They could probably expect the same in the
aviation community.

I have agreed to ask all of you your opinions on this. If you wish
to have your voice heard, please respond to .

During the coffee break I had a conversation with Kevin Psutka of
Copa, and the rep from NavCanada. There will be a change to the
airspace in the Toronto area on July 5th, and a circular layer of
Class E airspace with a floor of 6500 ft will extend from YYZ for a
65 nm radius. I believe that originally the intention had been to
have this airspace as Class C or D but Kevin Psutka was responsible
for limiting it to Class E. For most of us this will be a non or
limited issue, but we should be aware that NavCanada would also like
to have much more control of the airspace, and for us to have Mode C
transponders. The NavCanada rep was surprised to hear that many
light aircraft do not even have a radio, let alone a Mode C
transponder. It is a different world in Ottawa. If we do show by the
ECATS system that we are a large part of aviation, we will have more
clout in dealing with this.


On March 24th Aircraft Spruce is sponsoring the attendance costs for
all RAA Canada national members to attend the museum. If your
membership has lapsed, this is the last week to renew, because
Marina goes on two weeks holiday beginning next Saturday March 10th.
We will set up a renewal station at the Museum in the morning for
those who cannot get through this week on the RAA 1-800-387-1028

If you are planning to attend, we need to know by March 14th at the
latest. The caterer must be informed of the number so that we will
all get fed. Please email to to confirm your
attendance at this event.
Shorty .............
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Postby xgary » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:43 pm

now he sad thing is I posted this on UPAC and theyr had it removed as KAthy Lubitz has a probelm with it ...........

I am not a UPAC MEMBER - I am a RAA and COPA member though .
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Postby xgary » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:44 pm

another screen shot
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Postby xgary » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:45 pm

Here is what they wrote me .............. too funny ..........

Dear shorty,

You have received a new private message at Forums from Trev Page, entitled "You have received an infraction at Forums".

This is the message that was sent:
Dear shorty,

You have received an infraction at Forums.

Posting stuff without permission.

First notice: Do not post information from another organization without permissions from the author or from us.

This post was not even on the RAA website for crying out loud.

This infraction is worth 2 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

All the best,
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Postby xgary » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:48 pm

so now you know more about UPAC and how it is run...........

How many members could scan the newsletter and post it here.?

why pay ------when you can surf for freeeeeeeeeeeeee............
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Postby sparky » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:49 am

hey shorty, i think there pickin on you again, there being kinda petty if you ask me. tks for the info
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Postby xgary » Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:04 am

Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 8:19 AM
Subject: [RAA-N] RAA News!


Thank you for the ECATS responses so far. We have now posted the minutes of the March 1st ECATS (Electronic Collection of Air Transport Statistics) on the website. Please go to the website and click on the links to read the notes from the consultants, Transport's GA proposal, and the minutes of the March 1st meeting. When reading Transport's PDF, please make certain that you read the whole document - the GA part is in the latter half and it is important that you read what they would like from you in the future.

The covering letter to the minutes sets a deadline of March 31st for the consultants' recommendations to Transport. We must assume that they will close the door to input some time before that date, in order to have time to write their report. I would like to thank all who have taken the time to write in so far. In every case we read the email and de-identify the writer before including the email in that day's batch for the consultants. If you have an opinion, please take the time to type an email, pro or con. What is being proposed has the potential to change the way that you use the airspace. Email your response to and do it now!

Please forward this email to your local flying club and to other pilots. It is likely that they have not yet heard of what is being proposed. This not surprising because it was not until January 1st that the GA phase of ECATS was intiated, Until the March 1st meeting there was very little mention of what was being proposed. Even the agenda of the meeting was not made available until the week before the March 1st meeting in Ottawa, and the period for consultation is surprisingly brief. Again, write to .



Marina reports that the past two weeks have seen an inordinate number of membership renewals from members who wish to spend March 24th with their flying pals at the free Museum day sponsored by Aircraft Spruce Canada. The Museum opens at 10:00am and closes at 4:00pm, so you may be home in time for supper. Aircraft Spruce has sponsored the cost of attendance for RAA members, and Marina has arranged for a catered lunch at a cost of $10 per person. During the lunch break Mac Mazurek will explain the current situation with CCRA and our application for charitable status. We will have a very brief business meeting to take a vote on opening the bylaws to allow us to make the necessary changes to the wording to make this change, and also to expand our mission statement to include the categories of aircraft that were not in existence at the time that the bylaws were originally written.

Please continue to send in your emails to indicate that you will be attending. The caterers need to know how many lunches to provide. Please send to


This is the last call for new classifieds and for changes to your current ad. Chapter reports have been slowly coming in, and we could use a report from your chapter. Please send ads and news to


Click on this link to see how.

Gary Wolf
# 7379


RAA Canada National mailing list
RAA Web Site
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