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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:32 am
by xgary

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:23 pm
by xgary

US $2,616.66

NO SALE, Reserve not met ------> US $2,616.66

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:01 pm
by yankeflyer
well ya I guess congrats is in order - I still have a Im gonna get this plane in the air dream myself.

So I want to encourage you to post lots of pics and move this project over to the projects / hanger forum and there will lots help to post the pics.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:27 am
by lazairkid
Hey Joe,
It's nice to see there's another Lazair elite in S.C.
My Lazair Elite in based out of Holly Hill where I'm the President of the
Carolina Sport Flyers.
Bishopville is not far from you, there having a fly-in on Oct 19-21, all be there
on the 20th. I"ll most likely take the Challenger and not the Lazair or drive up.
If you can make it let me know and we can talk about Lazairs.
Thomas Walters
Pres- Carolina Sport Flyers :D

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:26 pm
by Chappy

I hear you got a bit of a surprise when you went to pick up your new bird. The description "ALWAYS KEPT IN HANGER AND IN EXCELLENT CONDITION!" from the eBay ad was bull, huh? I only noticed that this plane was on eBay the last day or so of the auction, and sent the owner several emails before he finally called me. I didn't get a warm-all-over feeling from him at all. Also, zero feedback is always a huge red flag, and in talking to him, he seemed to be knowledgeable of eBay, so that really, really worried me. The last evening I called around to guys in Maryland that I know, and one of them was quite familiar with the plane, and I got the straight poop on it's accident history and condition, which was nothing like "IN EXCELLENT CONDITION" in my book. I decided not to bid, even though the plane was only an hour or two drive away, mostly because I didn't want to deal with the owner. I'm surprised I had never run across this Lazair before, but I don't get around near as much as I used to. I was relieved to see that it didn't sell - not reaching his reserve price of $3500. Later, when you posted you had gone to get it from SC, I felt awful that I wasn't able to warn you before you left. It's good to hear you were able to renegotiate the sale down to a more realistic price.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:57 pm
by Chappy

Had you seen this plane before you bid on it? In re-reading your earlier posts just now, it sounds like you had, but I heard that you were surprised at it's poor condition when you went to pick it up. I'm confused. Was there more damage to it than there was the first time you went to see it?


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:14 am
by lazairiii
Just from the few pics you've posted here, I'm noticing the wings have had some crash history, and the rear seat bracket is detached from the fuselage. With that being apparent, be sure to look over the cockpit tubes carefully for cracks and bends. I'd suspect even further damage if you look closely. Having said that, you do have a Lazair and that's a good thing. Repairs can be made and you can get that plane back in the air with not too much trouble. Shannon and others have rescued planes in considerably worse condition and they now look amazing. So, take your time and ask for any help you may need and best of luck with the plane.


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:11 pm
by JPXman
i was talking about Dale George. He has a company who can order tedlar legit for other purposes i think and he had ordered a roll of 2500' and i think they sold about 20 kits of 110' each! it was the original TUT20BG3 grade as well. this is all subject to my memory and not guaranteed :)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:59 pm
by Chappy
Hi Joe,

I wasn't trying to make you feel bad about buying the Elite. I'm the one that felt bad because sometimes enthusiastic newbie's get in over their head. The Lazair you bought has lots of issues and will take a lot of work to make it right. Yes, I know it is "flyable", but that doesn't mean it should be in anywhere near it's current condition!

Paul is a old flying buddy of mine. He and I both ordered Lazairs at Oshkosh in 1979, the first year Ultraflight was in business. They (meaning Dale Kramer and his sidekick Peter Corley) took a Lazair to Sun N' Fun that spring and made quite an impression; the Lazair for being light years ahead of virtually all the other Ultralights present (some of which couldn't even make it out of ground effect, much less reach pattern altitude of a few hundred feet), and Peter. He was continuously in hot water for doing things like pulling loops while climbing out from the runway. Paul called me around December and said he had his Lazair half built, and heard I had bought one too. I had a fit because I had been waiting patiently for the factory to call me for the rest of the money and a delivery date. You see, I had placed my deposit before Paul. As it turned out, this worked out great for Paul, as he had his Lazair finished and in the air before mine, but I had built an enclosed trailer while I was waiting, so now I got the task on hauling his plane to Pennsylvania to a Spring fly-in so he could show it off. That was fun, but boy did I want to get mine in the air too! I did get it finished in time to haul it to Oshkosh, where Peter Corley flew it so it would be eligible to be judged (as a brand new student pilot, I wasn't comfortable flying it there). My Lazair won the second place award for best Ultralight. Boy was I proud! Paul may have gotten in the air first, but I had a much prettier Lazair than his. Actually, I remember now that someone (NOT ME!) tried to break one wing in half running it into something, and Paul had already placed a big old patch on one of the spars. Paul is known for being the first Lazair builder to reverse his wing tips, so they pointed down, not up. That plane probably had the lowest stall speed of any Lazair ever built, but was not so well behaved when making steep turns. I was known for building the first (only?) set of reduction drives for the Pioneer chainsaw engines that were supplied on the early series ones (and sadly, for having probably the heaviest series one ever built). I had also added an extra set of nacelle mounts to my Lazair, but after Wally Wonderful (HIS TRUE NAME!) flew his Lazair with four engines before I did, I lost interest in doing it.

Paul was nice enough to let me trailer my Lazair the 40 or so miles to his place to fly anytime I wanted, whether he was home or not. He always left the house open so you could use the bathroom, or raid the fridge! I almost lived there on weekends the first couple years. We had some incredible times there just North of Olney, Maryland. NOBODY knew what an Ultralight was back then, and most airports treated us very well. It was only later when boneheads in stuff like Wrong Brothers flying wings and Rotec Rally type planes showed up and started killing themselves that things got bad. And then there was the local CBS TV reporter that lied about his flying experience , took off in a friend's 'Dac WITHOUT PERMISSION, and dived it so fast he folded a wing back and FELL OUT killing himself on camera. Things weren't so happy around here (DC suburbs) for awhile after that fiasco.

Look, it seems like you are a smart, talented guy and will do fine with the hardware. Please, get some formal flight training, get someone with Lazair experience to test fly your plane, then make your first flights in the early mornings when there is NO WIND. These planes are very easy to fly in no wind conditions, but can become a handful to even a very experienced pilot until they get accustomed to the extreme low wing loading. It's just a matter of working your way up to real world daytime conditions. Take your time, take it easy, get some training, and you'll do fine.

Good luck, Chappy in VA
Series one, serial number 25, redrive Pioneer with 44" homemade pine props
Series three enclosed cockpit (EC), serial number unknown, Rotax (project)