Mylar

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Postby rayjb60 » Fri Aug 20, 2004 4:19 pm

Theres Tedlar actually available????

Let me know when youve completed a transaction and have some in your possesion.

I have my suspicions that finding a source and actually receiving some may be two different things all together.

Let me know if someone succeeds.

Ray
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Postby ozzie » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:35 pm

i have bought items from john about a year ago parts arrived here in australia via post no probs transaction via phone and visa.
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Postby senna12625 » Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:38 pm

The Tedlar VS Mylar discussion is of great interest... however I have been trying for weeks now to chase down info on the type of MYLAR that we'd need if going that route. Mylar is a registered trademark of DuPont for PET Film (Polyethylene Terephthalate) the same way we tend to call all cotton swabs, Q-Tips or all petroleum jellies, Vaseline. In looking on the DuPont Mylar website... one of their quotes is..."Mylar Films are PET... but not all PET films are Mylar. I find it difficult to believe since DuPont alone manufactures 223 different types of MYLAR Film!!!

Attempting to decern OUR requirements from the specifications is extremely confusing. From my limited research so far... I think we want a bi-axial oriented film. It's apparently stretched in both direction during manufacturing. The stretching is supposed to align the molecules for greater strength and durability. I believe the other type film is a CAST film. One possible candidate is...

MYLARÆ HS
Product Description: MylarÆ HS is an uncoated, transparent polyester film designed for heat shrink applications. It is commercially available in nominal 48, 65, 80 and 150 gauges. Unlike most PET films, MylarÆ HS is not heat stabilized and will shrink with considerable force when exposed to heat.

I know we want a 2 mil film. That's .002 inches... or 50.8 microns. I just can't seem to find out what the heck Dupont means by gauge. It can't be the same as a metal thickness or wire gauge??? Anyone out there know???

I contacted Chappy in the hopes of him having knowledge that would point me at the required product... however he does not posess that knowledge. I'm thinking that if Chappy doesn't know (him being a current Mylar user, former Ultraflight employee and dealer) just where do I look for this info. Who out there is knowledgable enough about this material so that we can approach a supplier with the specific product we need rather than attempting a fishing expedition that might draw suspicion. The greenhouse ruse is well known to all at DuPont with regard to Tedlar inquiries.

So... does anyone know exactly what were looking for... or maybe know a friend of a friend of a friend that knows??? :(

Steve
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Postby xgary » Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:45 pm

why would you want to use mylar?

Contact John Nagy as he apparently has TEDLAR and Tapes
althought i do not know hte actual specs of what he is offering.

the question has been directed to him and his buddy Mr George and no one will fess up to waht Grade tedlar thay in fact are selling.



You can always use fabric and paint it . At least you know what you got then.


jjnyos@hotmail.com


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Postby senna12625 » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:29 pm

SHORTY...

I aknowledge your attempt to contribute in response to my Mylar query... but you didn't provide any useful info to my request. Your complete dismissal of Mylar in the form of the WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO USE MYLAR displays your obvious disdain of anything other than Tedlar (which can be as rare as the mythical UNOBTAINIUM) or fabric! As an answer to your question with regard to John's Tedlar... the amount of covering I require exceeds John's limited supply and as he doesn't desire to reveal his source... I'm left to explore alternative polymer materials as I do not desire the additional weight of fabric and paint.

Mylar as a covering material, when ALL aspects are considered, is a MORE desirable product that performs almost as well as the TEDLAR product that just can't be easily had. There are even questions about which TYPE of Tedlar one requires... TUT20BG3 is touted to be the OEM replacement for the Lazair but AeroFalcon states that ONLY TTR20SG4 is the proper material. Who's correct??? Don't bother to answer as I'm not interested. I'm on to MYLAR as a pursuit.

So... I'm back to my original question... does anyone know exactly what MYLAR to look for... PRODUCT No. or designation???? Or maybe know a friend of a friend of a friend that knows???

Steve
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Postby xgary » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:46 pm

Mylar is a pooor choice

but hey u seem to be the expert Steve,

hell if i know about mylar

last time i seen it was at THAT PARTY PLACE for BALLOONS.

Ask around MYLAR sux at UV and will last you a short time unless painted and hangared all the time.

Why not use Stits or hipec ? and you will end up painting it and it will last you 30 years.


oh and PS to your response

<Don't bother to answer as I'm not interested. I'm on to MYLAR as a pursuit>

FOR YOU AND YOUR MYLAR LOL
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Postby xgary » Thu Nov 25, 2004 9:49 pm

For you Steve
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Postby JPXman » Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:18 am

nothing like an open mind eh Shorty :)

what's wrong with Mylar if you have a hanger or store your aircraft in a trailer? If its cheap and available and you can keep your bird out of the sun while not flying, then I say fill your boots.

senna12625, please continue your well written and informative posts and do not be dissuaded by the peanut gallery... and when I say gallery it's really only one voice - I'm lookin at you shorty! Your closemindedness, Shorty, reminds me of the IBM executive in the 60's who said that maybe 7 or possibly 8 companies in the world would ever own a computer. I'm pretty sure there are lots of lazairs happily flying around supported by a thin film of Mylar to this day.

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Postby Lazair_guest_please_registerjb88 » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:07 am

well, I'm rebuilding 3 lazairs and my partner/boss used to be a dealer. We had very detailed and in depth discussions on how to recover. We even have a roll of 2 mil tedlar. The cost is only the tapes.

We're going with Hipec. It's UV resistant, easy to repair, won't be prone to lifting off the capstrips, won't peel from the leading edge and will add stiffness to the wing with little or no weight penalty.

I believe that those two pink/purple lazairs were found to be 5lbs less after the hipec process.
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Postby Lazair_guest_please_registerLaza » Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:14 pm

Ok Kids, lets settle down. It seems to me that it comes down to a couple of things, one is education and the other is personal choice.

I know there are a number of different coverings being successfully used on flying planes right now. So I will focus on what I have studied and have chosen for my plane.

I have attached a document that should explain Tedlar to the group once and for all. Yes, Tedlar does come in quite a number of formulations, and yes I'd say a few of them might be fine for our application. But at least for me, and it just my personal choice, TUT20BG3 is the one for me. I readily admit that Falcon has been using TTR20SG4 with success. It makes me nervous however to use a Tedlar film that is not UV rated and is Strippable & nonadherable such as the Falcon formulation. If someone can tell me how to post/attach a PDF file I scanned from a Dupont Tedlar page, you will visually what I'm talking about.

T stands for "Tedlar"
UT stands for "Ultraviolet screening film, transparent
20 is the thickness 200 gauge or 2mil
B stands for Both sides adherable (now this one is vitally important if you want your tapes to stick...which I'd be willing to bet we all do.
G stands for Glossy
3 stands for Standard tensil and elongation.

Now when it comes to covering, I don't want to have to cover any more often than necessary. So it's my choice to stay away from that I have personally seen first hand with Mylar. Now if Mylar is your choice, no problem, but just know that you may be recovering sooner that you think. Just an opinion...

George Curtis
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