John Nagy posting again

General Messages Post you pics as well

Postby xgary » Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:15 pm

Guy offers this and that for Lazairs.
old stock from kramers clan?

Tedlar with no info and tapes that have already proven to come loose.

Were they correct tapes ?
Faulty install ?
Or just the same old stuff.......... sell for profit and screw the rest .

Lets see how this plays out , but don;t yah think it odd that Nagy decides to not post here ? I undrstand this site has alot of traffic and mostly lazair related but here is a empty promiser once agian rearing his face trying to get back into his mission....... unloading stuff to unwary buyers.


Just my opinion, but i open to see if others feel the same way
Shorty .............
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Postby Guest » Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:14 am

I have met John a couple of times. Have you? He seemed like a nice guy. When I asked his opinion about a couple of things he gave an answer and an explanation.
I did not buy any tedlar or tape so I don't know if there was a problem, but I saw his plane and I was amazed how well the tape sticks. He even had the wingtips covered in tedlar! If there was a problem, lets hear the facts from someone involved so we can learn from it.
There are only a few people helping to get irreplaceable parts for the Lazair. I did not get any wheels but I'm sure others were very happy not to have to convert to a different setup.
I can only assume the reason John doesn't post is because he is tired of your crap (Shorty). Rarely do you post suggestions or help, usually it is criticism. I have read your posts on other sites as well and it is usually the same negative comments with nothing to back them up.
I hope John sticks around, I believe he has a lot to offer.
Barry
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Postby ozzie » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:22 am

i gotta go along with barry on this i have bought some bits off john and recieved great advice and service and i live on the other side of the world i would not hesitate using his service again. as for the tape i did not buy his but used the same available here had some problems with it but it was me, cold day and did not clean the alloy properley. once the day warmed up and i used a oil free solvent, no problems. i have found the adhesion to improve as time went on.

SHORTY- instead of yarping on like a wombat how about turning up some of those folding tail hardware and put them on the market so i can test your workmanship and service... or afraid someone will pick on you. OZZIE
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Postby xgary » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:17 am

Barry , you only dislike myy crap cause it true.
And for help on Lazairs, hell i am useless. AGREED !!! LOL

I can be negative especially when the bullshit flies an when someone is spouting off about sumthing they have no idea what they are talking about.

What is an irreplacable part for the lazair? I have not found one yet.
You mean ones that are no longer sold? I guess since Ultraflight is no longer in business they are not a supplier.
Lazair is made from all readily available parts today and or substitutes that do seem to be satisfactory.


Ozzie - to each his own. I would only buy tedlar from someone who will tell you what grade you are getting . Do you know for a fact what your is ?
And the Tapes have had at least one failure and hopefully the last one.
And that folding tail hardware is orginal ultraflight stuff. If you look back at the pics you will see the Ultraflight stickers still there i think.

Shorty wonders why Mr Nagy never posted responses to what kind of tedlar and/or tapes he was selling.
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Postby Guest » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:27 pm

He is a nice guy. He just doesn't have enough Lazair experience to advocate some of the things he advocates. He somehow connects his experience level with flying other planes to proper Lazair set-up/rebuild/maintenance. He clearly has a LOAD to learn and people should not blindly follow his advice simply because he helped source some wheels and stuff. He's is definitely still learning though he'd make you think he's an expert.
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Postby Guest » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:23 pm

It definitely flies in the face of people with 20-25 years of Lazair experience when someone new comes along and says foil tape alone works on the wings, especially on the leading edge. Everyone can see that Ultraflight used Tedlar tape (made from 2mil Tedlar) to attach and seal the covering on the wings. The wide Tedlar tape works in unision with the double sided-foam attachment tapes and capstrips to keep the covering on the wings. Ideas such as this undermine quality advice based on actual long term experience. What "works for him" has no basis in fact in the long term. Tedlar covering lasts long term obviously. To make matters worse the statement "what you would do if it was a real airplane" always seems to pop up during discussion. This is a useless statement as you must "do what what has proven to work properly ON A LAZAIR".
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Postby ozzie » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:08 pm

shorty i know the folding tail parts are lazair design just like to get a set for mine as you had posted the photos of them maybe you can turn some up for those who need them. Tedlar i have never liked the stuff thats why i sourced original roll of mylar. as for the tape i listened to the advice of a salesman working in this field for 20 years. not happy with his choice but it works when you do the proper preparation. who would have thought surface temp difference of 5degc would affect initial contact adhesion. there were no instructions supplied.
even back when ultraflite was around their updates referred to tedlar tape failure back then and supplied tape to double over. this problem is not new. besides it is not the tape but the adhesive. if you would like to contribute try sourcing the right stuff. do some research like the rest of us. i have a dozen test panels made up covered with several different types of polymers and tapes,sitting on the roof doing uv tests some are working some aren't. by the way the best results for tape so far are a cheap $1.50 a roll stuff still hanging in there after 10 mths the expensive stuff i used on my lazair is curling on the edges..give us something physical instead of just your opinion. ozzie
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Postby Guest » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:10 pm

Example. 2-inch repair tape, foil tape, and no capstrips. Clearly this is faulty information.


Quote: John
"
Hi David, that would be annoying for sure. I recovered my bird last summer
in tedlar and I've found the foam from 3 M incredably sticky, I even did the
tips in clear tedlar and it holds on the inside of the concave surface even
after shrinking.

For your problem.... before I recovered my newly purchased Lazair the guy
before had rivited thin aluminum strips on top of the somewhat punky old
tedlar, into the aluminum caps on the foam ribs. He had then covered the
strips and a bit of the covering with the same 1 1/2 or 2 inch tape we use
to seal the edges. That is a recommended mod on the underside to keep the
covering stuck to the concave underside of the wing near the engines when
using bigger engines. This guy had done the whole underside because the
covering was getting old. When I recovered I didn't use the strips at all.
I had heated the aluminum slightly and have terrific adhesion and I have the
9.5 rotax engines.

I used clear slightly stretchy 2 inch repare tape bought at the local
Canadian tire for my trailing edges and shiny foil duck tape for the leading
edge.

Anyways that should work for you"
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Postby Guest » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:51 pm

ozzie @ Jun 30 2005, 05:08 PM wrote: shorty i know the folding tail parts are lazair design just like to get a set for mine as you had posted the photos of them maybe you can turn some up for those who need them. Tedlar i have never liked the stuff thats why i sourced original roll of mylar. as for the tape i listened to the advice of a salesman working in this field for 20 years. not happy with his choice but it works when you do the proper preparation. who would have thought surface temp difference of 5degc would affect initial contact adhesion. there were no instructions supplied.
even back when ultraflite was around their updates referred to tedlar tape failure back then and supplied tape to double over. this problem is not new. besides it is not the tape but the adhesive. if you would like to contribute try sourcing the right stuff. do some research like the rest of us. i have a dozen test panels made up covered with several different types of polymers and tapes,sitting on the roof doing uv tests some are working some aren't. by the way the best results for tape so far are a cheap $1.50 a roll stuff still hanging in there after 10 mths the expensive stuff i used on my lazair is curling on the edges..give us something physical instead of just your opinion. ozzie


How much Tedlar have you installed, flown, and looked at for 20 years Ozzie ??? Probably NONE, ZERO, NADA ! Oh, you don't "Like" it, Oh OK. Have fun with you crusty Mylar in 5 years !
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Postby Guest » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:04 pm

Fact of the matter is Tedlar jobs started failing when Ultraflight switched briefly to an inferior "cheaper" type of doubled sided film attachment tape than they had previously been supplying. Their solution was to double tape the edges with more wide Tedlar tape.
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