New Lazairs (Sorta)

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Postby Lspav8r » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:45 am

Suppose differant entities made differant components of the "Lazair", say one made just wings,and another made just frames, and yet another made something else but they were not of the same conglomerate (for lack of a better word). Where would the liability lie if someone went out of their way to find all of the components and built their own machine out of these components without being able to get them from one company. Could this be possible? thus removing liability from any one person, or group for that matter?

I know its far fetched, but then again if there is a will there is a way.

RISE OF THE PHOENIX
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Postby Lspav8r » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:18 pm

Joe.

I appreciate your input as all input has something we can all use to help us in the quest of our love for flying.

I fully intend to press all of the resources available to assist me in my quest to turn this lazair series 2 I have come in to owning in to a viable flying machine once again.

If only the weather would cooperate a little I could get this thing out of the trailer and in to the garage or better yet the basement and start the process of breaking down that wing and finding out just how bad it is under that crinkle in the leading edge. Without taking it apart I think that it may just be rivets popped out but only time will tell.

Believe me if I had the money laying around I would be making a trip out east with the trusty trailer to pick up that beautiful example of a Lazair.

Jim
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Postby Lspav8r » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:30 pm

The engines were not running when the ground strike happened but I fully intend to tear them down and have them gone through. Hey, I like me too much to do something that could be the last time I do it :).

I just gotta get them wings inside the house (basement) so I can look them over real close for bad spar in that dented area.

Jim
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Postby Chappy » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:41 pm

At the risk of stirring up the covering material controversy ONE MORE TIME (and I promise not to mention the M word), I would like to know what exactly certain people have against using the Tedlar that Falcon East still sells? I realize it is not exactly the same spec as Ultraflight used, but by all accounts that is no longer manufactured by DuPont, and they have no intention to ever do so again. The material that FE sells is for use on, and is used on, Falcons that are both considerably heavier and faster than any Lazair I know of. If it makes a suitable and safe covering material for that aircraft, why would it not be even more suitable for the Lazair?

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Postby Lspav8r » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:19 pm

Chappy @ Feb 1 2008, 11:41 PM wrote: At the risk of stirring up the covering material controversy ONE MORE TIME (and I promise not to mention the M word), I would like to know what exactly certain people have against using the Tedlar that Falcon East still sells? I realize it is not exactly the same spec as Ultraflight used, but by all accounts that is no longer manufactured by DuPont, and they have no intention to ever do so again. The material that FE sells is for use on, and is used on, Falcons that are both considerably heavier and faster than any Lazair I know of. If it makes a suitable and safe covering material for that aircraft, why would it not be even more suitable for the Lazair?

Chappy


I concur. Unless collectively we can pool up enought (20,000) from every lazair owner and get all the old tedlar we can use to cover our machines I see no reason not to use the stuff from Falcon. I intend to keep my machine in a trailer when n ot flying anyways so Im not worried about degradation of the covering.

Jim (lspav8r)
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Postby shorty_ » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:09 pm

Chappy , it prolly work fine.

I just use ceconite. sure you lose the translucent appeal but it works just as well as far as flying. I don't hink you gain any weight unless you use something like Aerothane and use like 5 or 10 coats.

I do not know what their's is in differance. Are you sure Dupont does not make anymore?
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Postby Chappy » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:46 pm

Hi Shorty, how ya been?

No, I don't personally know that. Dale George told me that although DuPont had discontinued Tedlar PVF film, though contacts he had with a few people there, he had been able to get a special run made a couple years ago. Since then he has sold out, and told me that he has been unable to get another batch made. So, it appears that DuPont still has the capability to manufacture it, just is not interested as product demand is virtually nil. I don't know the story behind the Tedlar film that Falcon East sells, and why it's still available.

Wasn't the Tedlar variety Ultraflight supplied made by DuPont for use as some type of solar glazing? I wonder if the stuff FE sells is the PVF film used for laminating. Has anyone had any experience using both materials? Are there any differences in application or in stress relieving (what we refer to as shrinking)? The Mylar I've used "shrinks" in both directions about equally it seems. The Tedlar supplied from UF shrunk much more in the long dimension than in the narrower width dimension. The metalized Mylar I did some covering with barely shrunk at all (the metalizing stress relieved the film during the processing), which, along with the heat reflectivity of the metallic coating, made shrinking the finished covering quite challenging without burning the tape adhesive or putting holes in the material. Dale Kramer covered one factory demonstrator in the same stuff, and never did another, IIRC. I was doing some fabric covering on a wing on our old '46 Champ a couple weeks ago. Man, is that glue something else. Reminded me why I like using the tapes when covering my Lazairs!

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Postby shorty_ » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:19 am

I would have to dig it up but I did get a quote on it a few years ago from Dupont.
I think it was 5 or 10k $ order was the minimum and was sold by weight.
That is what I remember anyhow.
George Curtis got some good tapes my from Tedlar a few years ago too.
That is the only tape I would use on Tedlar.

As far as Glue and fabric , well it does hold rather well chappy, the glues and polyester resins fumes just wipe more blood cells , although I tell my wife when she complains that for every good blood cell it kills it kills a cancer blood cell. That is my thoughts LOL
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